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For Series 80, the Company did indeed screw the pooch as to serial numbers (see below–taken from an unknown ancient PAS Service Bulletin). I don’t think the Company did this on any other model.

1924-25 801001-801250 250 cars

802001-802500 500 cars

803001-803500 500 cars

804001-804500 500 cars

805001-805500 500 cars (21” wheels begin 805443??)

806000-806999 1,000 cars

807000-807999 1,000 cars

1926 808000-8015609 7,610 cars

1927 8015610 and up (20” wheels begin here)

Note that substantial blocks of numbers were skipped until 80-6000, after which the numbers appear to be honest.

Reason? We can only speculate… Perhaps to make Branhams and other such companies think that more cars were being sold than actually were–but when the S80 became a success there was no longer a reason to fudge…

For What It May Be Worth….

The Old Curmudgeon

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I’m very sorry to hear of the theft of those parts. May I respectfully suggest that you….

1. Post your local law enforcement agency name and phone number here, along with their case number

2. Monitor eBay with a standing search

Best wishes for recovery–and prosecution

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As I think I mentioned during last year’s very generous similar offer, I use two Optima 6V batteries in parallel in my Pierce 8-cylinder cars. A single Optima does very well in my Series 80 cars.

The advantage of two-in-parallel is more for the **reserve** capacity needed for significant night driving while running at a charging deficit.

For example, 1934 Pierce 8s were factory equipped with a wet cell battery with 140 amp hrs (AH) of reserve; Pierce 12s had 165 AH reserve. A 6V Optima battery has not more than 100 AH of reserve.

Those 1934 Pierces with Delco generators rated at 25 amps actually produced a max of 17 amps HOT with the third brush turned up all the way. I’ve upgraded my tail and stop light bulbs to #1129 and therefore run at a charging deficit at night with headlights on.

Therefore, a pair of Optimas will give you 200 AH of reserve.

Last year, using batteries from this offer, I replaced the pair of Optimas installed in my 1930 roadster in 2000–they were getting a tad weak. In my experience, Optimas can be left for significant periods of non-use without using a float charger; that is, they maintain their charge much longer than wet cell batteries.

I’m ordering another two now! And I’m mentioning PAS in my email to OptimaJim in hopes of making this an annual opportunity.

Thanks for putting this offer together, Peter

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Because it’s difficult to start the thread on the wire clamps, my technique is to put a pair of correct wire clamps in the center of a section of hose, positioned as you want them for the ends and NOT tightened more than enough to keep them from rolling around, and modern clamps on the ends for the initial set. If you can, allow up to 20 heating/cooling cycles before peeling off the modern clamps without disturbing the set of the hose on its mating surface and sliding the authentic clamps toward each end of the hose.

Some water pump housings have eroded surfaces that will continue to leak. The solution for this is to coat the inside of the hose’s mating surface with Indian Head gasket shellac. Do so knowing, however, that the ONLY way you will remove that hose in the future is to cut it off!

And PLEASE remove markings of the hose exterior (e.g., the Gates green stripe) with lacquer thinner before installing the hose, or at least rotate the hose section so that the marking is not obviously visible.

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To me, the first issue is to get the starter operating correctly. If you have not already done so, clean ALL battery connections, both hot leads and grounds, especially the latter. By that, I mean both the connections to the battery but also those to the starter and to the battery ground. No sense risking burning up the starter. If cleaning those connections still results in “smoke,” remove starter and repair it before proceeding with trying to start the car.

There is another potential problem area for a car which has not be started in a few months: The ignition point surfaces can acquire a coating from disuse, and this coating (oxidation) may prevent sufficient spark. Remove the distributor cap, and draw and **uncoated** business card between closed points to clean them. A very small shot of circuit cleaner or brake cleaner (non-flammable) may help, but it is the friction of the uncoated business card between each set of points held closed by the spring that really does the job. With dual points, begin with the closed set then crank the engine until the other set of points is closed and repeat for the second set.

If the starter is operating properly, see if the plug wires produce a fat blue spark at least 1/4-inch long between plug wire end and plug during cranking with starter (a two-person job). Be sure to use insulated pliers to hold each wire the proper distance away from the plug. If you don’t have the fat blue spark, the ignition system needs to be corrected first.

Hope this helps!

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Philomena, thanks for refreshing this old thread.

Let me update by saying that I’ve had excellent success with (blue) Startron as found at marine stores, and need to replenish my supply. A little goes a long way: an initial dose is one ounce per 8 gallons of gas, with follow-on dose of one ounce per 16 gallons, but a pint of the product costs about $25.

Again, I’ve had no experience with blue (marine) Sta-Bil, only with the red Sta-Bil as found at Home Depot for use in lawnmowers and other small gasoline engines–which I found generally unsatisfactory for automobile gasoline stabilization over the winter.

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Steve,

For permanent lube in SoCal, I’d use 140 weight. But in your case, I’d be inclined to use 90 initially to help flush out the diff. Then put 500-1,000 miles on it and drain the diff (pull the bottom two or three cover bolts) while the diff is HOT and let it drain overnight. And you may wish to remove the cover initially and wipe out the cavity with lint-free cloths and a little solvent.

George

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Afterthoughts:

1. I can get the NAPA part number off my 5-gallon pail of GL-1 90 weight if you need it.

2. The jeepster manuals specify “straight mineral oil” (i.e., what we now call GL-1) for their Borg-Warner transmission and overdrive units.

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Hi Steve,

For my money, any transmission with synchromesh and especially overdrive or free wheeling units should use GL-1 (straight mineral oil, no additives). I ordered a 5-gallon pail of 90-wt from my local NAPA store and they had it for me the following day. I’m not sure whether they sell it in smaller containers, but one gallon would do you. That’s suitable for the steering box as well. The differential is hypoid and thus requires an Extreme Pressure (EP) gear oil, GL-4. Do NOT use GL-5 (EP with additional additives for limited slip differentials) or GL-6 (synthetic), as those two have additives which may attack the yellow metal (brass and bronze).

After consulting with a Sta-Lube PhD chemist, in 1996 I filled my 1936 diff with GL-6 synthetic for the purpose of cooling it better on a crosscountry trip. What a mistake! In Wyoming I crawled under the car to fill a leaky rear shock and almost burned myself on the diff cover. At the next town I bought GL-4 and a drain pan, and found the dreaded golden speckles (from deteriorating yellow metal) in the drained synthetic. Apparently I caught it soon enough, because 20K miles later there are still no apparent ill effects.

Among my non-Pierce cars, I have two Jeepsters, whose owners manuals explicitly state to use hypoid lube only in the diff, and not in the trans and overdrive–which are also Borg-Warner.

Use 600W in non-hypoid diffs such as series 80/81 (one easy way to tell is if the pinion enters the center of the pumpkin rather than near the bottom), and in non-synchro (i.e., crash-box) transmissions. If you buy 600W (not for this car!), you can get it from a Model A Ford parts source but be sure to get the dark, smelly, super-viscous stuff rather than the honey-colored, less-viscous gear oil which I suspect is re-packaged SAE 160.

In my experience, true 600W (AKA steam cylinder oil) gets thicker with time and almost tar-like after 30 years or so. I use Texaco Thuban SAE 250 which is available from big rig repair shops in 5-gallon pails.

Hope this helps!

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With a heavy heart, I report that our good friend Walt Kuhn passed away Thursday morning, May 22. I greatly enjoyed touring with Walt and Kathryn over almost two decades. I was fortunate enough to be able to have a last telephone conversation with him Wednesday afternoon.

It’s my understanding that, at Walt’s request, there will be no services.

RIP, my friend….

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Pierce-Arrow did indeed specify a 90-10 mix of glycerine and alcohol for Houdaille shocks (I can’t speak for the Delco-Lovejoys but doubt they used glycerine). Shock rebuilders today use hydraulic oil and **seals appropriate for the fluid used.**

Because glycerine is so benign to all kinds of sealing materials, I have used the glycerine mix on Houdaille shocks that may not have been rebuilt, and jack oil on those known to have been rebuilt in recent years. I use denatured alcohol rather than isopropyl due to the water content in the latter.

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I’d like to add that a pair of Optimas fit nicely in a Group 3 (8 cyl) or Group 4 (V-12) battery box without modifications to the box.

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Thanks, Peter! I ordered a pair to replace the 14-yr-old Optimas in my 1930 roadster just in case… Very easy ordering, immediate shipment, and their confirmation of order and shipping advice were also near-immediate.

In a previous thread I mentioned that I use a pair of Optimas in parallel for my 8-cylinder Pierces primarily to handle the charging deficit when driving at night. The 6V Optimas have a Reserve Capacity (RC–essentially the same as Ampere Hours (AH)) of only 100. Group 3 wet cell batteries with which 8s were originally equipped had a 140 AH capacity and the group 4s used in 12s had 165 AH. The only time you need a second battery is for prolonged night driving due to the 25A generators used until late 1934.

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This car was the subject of a >4-month long thread on the AACA forums. The current owner started the thread.

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/1930-pierce-arrow-land-speed-record-348722.html

Ed Minnie, David Coco, and I commented at various points in the thread.

The consensus seems to be that it is a late 1931 Model 43 engine and 137″ wb chassis. Has the original Pierce diff, not suitable for Land Speed Record runs. I think it’s a post-war backyard build, especially with the WW2 aircraft gauges used.

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Joe, your perseverance and ingenuity have really paid off–the car looks wonderful! It would be great if your many “adventures” in bringing this one back could be written up for the benefit of the membership.

Bill, thanks very much for the photography and the narrative!

George

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I believe that the pictured backing plate is correct for all 1924 through 1930, not just Series 80 and 81. Greg is correct that the Arrolite plate for 1931-33 is different.

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Al & Linda deserve huge credit for recruiting not only local PAS members (a surprising number live in the delightful Carson Valley) but also many members of other car clubs to make these meet superb! Many thanks to all the Nevada folks who were hands-on all the time before and during the Meet. Those of us NorCal Region members who live “over the hill” mostly in the SF Bay Area did what we could at a distance, but the day-to-day efforts of the Nevada folks are the greatest contributor to the success of the Meet.

Thanks and congrats to all of you!

George

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In preparation for moving, while sorting unfiled documents (I HATE filing!), I found a photocopy of an article entitled “LeBaron and Pierce-Arrow” by the late LeBaron designer Hugo Pfau in the September 1976 issue of Cars & Parts magazine. I haven’t had the article THAT long! Obviously a PAS member sent it to me, but I can’t remember who… My apologies to that member who should be credited with providing this information. The following excerpt from the article sheds a great deal of light on the issue:

“About the same time [1931] we started these five series of LeBaron bodies for Pierce-Arrow, we also undertook another contract for them, building their production convertible sedans of the time. Like the Stutz production bodies I wrote about recently, we did not consider these LeBaron bodies but just something to help keep the plant busy.

“We worked out a design based on the standard phaeton being built by Pierce-Arrow at the time. In fact, they supplied us with body panel stampings identical to those on the phaeton, which had to be only slightly modified. The actual framework of the body was somewhat different, to accommodate the door windows.

“We also supplied a new and different windshield and, of course, the top itself was of entirely different construction. It is simply not feasible to adapt a phaeton to a convertible sedan.

“These bodies were shipped to Buffalo “in the white,” with paint and upholstery done at the Pierce-Arrow plant. However, we did complete the tops before shipment, as covering a convertible top was a tricky job.

“one hundred of these production Convertible Sedans were built at the LeBaron-Detroit plant during 1931, and some more later on. Like the phaetons on whose design these were based, the doors on these 1931 models were hinged at front and rear, closing on the center post. Some of the later bodies, after Pierce-Arrow had changed their phaeton design, had the doors hinged from a center post with two large exposed chrome-plated hinges. They could be distinguished from the true LeBaron model both by their general appearance and in those hinges. The ones we considered LeBaron had three such hinges on each side.

“Now those true LeBaron bodies of the five styles I have mentioned [i.e., Sport Coupe, Convertible Victoria, Convertible Sedan, Club Sedan, and a “large and luxurious” Enclosed Drive Limousine] were completely finished and mounted in [sic] their chassis [sic] at the LeBaron-Detroit plant. Then they were either driven or shipped by rail to the dealers who had ordered them. On the other hand, the production convertible sedan bodies, not yet painted or upholstered, were loaded on trailers for shipment to Buffalo.

[These bodies were shipped by boat between Detroit and Buffalo on the D & C Lines. Further detail omitted here.]

“Altogether, LeBaron built close to 200 custom bodies on various Pierce-Arrow chassis over the years, nearly all during the ten-year span from 1924 to 1933. When you add in the 130 or more of the production convertible sedan bodies, that is quite a respectable total to have created for one of America’s most prestigious cars.”

[end of article]

The article includes a 3/4 right front photo captioned “A later production Convertible Sedan of 1934, on which the basic body was again built by LeBaron. This photograph was sent to me by the late Morris G. Endres, a true Pierce-Arrow enthusiast, who owned the car at the time.” [NOTE: Appears identical to the car offered by Tom Crook.]

This seems to be the Rest of the Story –with apologies to Paul Harvey.

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More congratulations to Chris and George! As noted by several, their cars are superb restorations, impeccably maintained and detailed.

George

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There is no better authorized Pierce-Arrow Service Station than Greg Long — and he has been known to make house calls as far away as California and Massachusetts!

[Author]

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