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I concur completely with Greg (I had 27 yrs in the aviation industry) as to the desirability of Halon, but it is banned for new sales except for aviation use. The following is a quote from Wikipedia pertaining to USA requirements:
“Halon (including Halon 1211 and Halon 1301), a gaseous agent that inhibits the chemical reaction of the fire. Classes B:C for lower weight fire extinguishers (2.3 kg; under 9 lbs) and A:B:C for heavier weights (4.1–7.7 kg; 9–17 lbs). Banned from new production, except for military use, as of January 1, 1994 as its properties contribute to ozone depletion and long atmospheric lifetime, usually 400 years. Halon was completely banned in Europe resulting in stockpiles being sent to the United States for reuse. Although production has been banned, the reuse is still permitted. Halon 1301 and 1211 are being replaced with new halocarbon agents which have no ozone depletion properties and low atmospheric lifetimes, but are less effective. Currently Halotron I, Halotron II, FE-36 Cleanguard and FM-200 are meant to be replacements with significantly reduced ozone depletion potential.”
I have and carry with me in my Pierces two 10ABC Halon extinguishers that are still holding pressure.
Grainger sells Halotron extinguishers. I do not know the relative effectiveness of Halotron (there was also a “Halonite”) vs. the genuine Halon.
Can someone more knowledgeable direct us to other sources?
From early 1925 through early 1926 Series 80 cars were factory-equipped with Elgin (and perhaps other makes) speedometers and clocks while the Waltham workers were on a long strike. I can’t speak for the Series 33–was that the same experience?
Tony, that’s a good point. Let me try to clarify.
What Chris posted as sourced from Peter Williams and myself was written as info for Series 80/81 ONLY, although some of the info holds true for later cars.
I do recommend using 600W in NON-synchromesh transmissions.
For synchromesh transmissions and overdrives/free wheeling, I use 90 or 140 (depending on your climate and how worn your tranny is) that is GL-1 (i.e.,straight mineral oil without hypoid additives). In California, NAPA can get GL-1 oils within a day but those oils are not on the shelf–they do stock GL-4 and GL-5. Paul Johnson has posted good information on the desirability of GL-1, and the adverse effects of GL-5 (especially) and GL-4 in the past year or so.
For 1929 and later steering boxes, I prefer GL-1 gear oil of a weight your steering box will hold, 90 if possible, heavier if necessary. For very leaky boxes, you may need to use the 800W or 1200W Penrite lubricants from restoration Supply.
Re Tony’s issue: True, access to the steering box filler on 1936-38 cars is only by way of a fill tube. I don’t know whether the grease fitting he cites is authentic–my 1936 had a hinged-top oil cup at the fill end of that tube. I use a small pump-handle oil can filled with 90W gear oil to fill that tube. I agree that ANY kind of pressure filling of steering boxes is undesirable.
One of the sources of confusion is, I believe, that in the 1920s 600W, a heavy gear oil, was frequently referred to as “liquid grease.” Indeed, that was the chassis grease dispensed by the “compressor, grease” to suspension fittings.
Final photo:
Additional photo:
Bob, thanks for posting this. I think we are all grieving with, and praying for, Jim and Dot.
The hearse looks like a Series 80 chassis (full hood louvers) despite the (necessary) sidemount; the tire diameter appears large, probably 22-inch, which would make it a 1925 model.
The sedan appears to be a 1930 Model B Club Sedan.
George
Pierce never produced “shop manuals””as such. 1929 is the last year for which the “”owners manual”” (actually called “”Operation and Care”” manual or some variant) had “”how-to”” information on adjustments and repairs. So in my 1930 I carry a photocopy of a 1929 manual (the cars are mechanically very similar) for the technical information. 1930 and later OMs are essentially “”how to drive”” manuals.”
Mika,
It was our pleasure! We are delighted that you could free up a day to visit with us and talk Pierce-Arrows during your hectic vacation schedule. We’ll be happy to see you all again any time.
George
Congratulations, Roger–although it’s no surprise to us! You have done wonders with The Arrow!
Eddie,
I just emailed you the spreadsheet. Good luck and please keep us all posted!
George
A postscript to my last:
I’ll be happy to send the Excel spreadsheet on P-A (only) Timkens numbers from that 1934 catalog to any member requesting it. Chris, yours is on the way. 
George
Eddie and Chris,
Those numbers (09078 and 090194) are from a **1934** Timken roller bearing catalog that I acquired; I made a spreadsheet of the P-A applications and that was the basis for the table in a PASB a couple of years ago, and probably for the PS&D listings. Listings in that catalog are limited to **roller** bearings and their races. There are also listings for P-A trucks and for other makes of cars, and I’m happy to look up Timken numbers in that catalog for any member. One good thing about Timken is that their bearing numbers have pretty much remained the same for 80-90 years; another is that Timken was P-A’s OE supplier.
I have no idea why your bearing arrangement is different from the Timken listing, which was compiled when your car was only one year old. Perhaps someone re-engineered yours during that car’s lifetime, or perhaps P-A did so as a service modification. From disassembling several fans, I have indeed seen different bearing arrangements on fan hubs that have similar external appearance–there ARE differences, possibly indicating running changes from the factory.
On my own fans, I’ve been unhappy with the factory sealing (usually just a felt washer and a metal slinger), which causes some oil to be slung around the engine compartment, even after I’ve added just a small amount of oil, then rotated the aperture to the 7-o’clock position and let it drain overnight. Gradually, I’ve been replacing the bearings and shafts with post-war water pump shafts and sealed bearing assemblies, which will never need lubrication or replacement for the rest of my own lifetime. Our member Jerry Washburn in CA identified the correct replacement parts and did the machine work for me (he also re-engineers water pumps using sealed bearings and modern seals, doing away with packing and making the grease cup merely decorative).
Chris, can you add a caution to the PASB listing for fan bearings?
Sorry for anyone’s inconvenience.
George
From my reading of the SK article that Gene mentioned, it is an explanation of why ethanol-laced gasoline “goes bad” over a few months: the ethanol (alcohol) actually separates from the gasoline. Further, alcohols absorb water from the atmosphere but reach a saturation point, aggravated for us because our fuel systems are vented to the atmosphere.
My interpretation of the article is that we need to consider using a product like Sta-Bil or Startron especially during off-seasons.
We have a reciprocity arrangement with SK. Perhaps Arnold Romberg, our PASB editor, can obtain permission to reprint the SK article in a future PASB.
Tony, I used the BLUE Startron but have used the RED Sta-Bil in the past (I hadn’t looked in marine stores for a marine version of Sta-Bil). I deliberately chose the marine product this time because of its touted superiority for long periods of vehicle disuse that is common to both marine engines and our vintage cars–except for you guys in Florida!
Let me add to my MMO content that our L-head and T-head engines are not particularly efficient and thus arguably have a greater tendency to acquire carbon deposits in the cylinder heads than OHV engines.
One of our problems in 10%-ethanol states is the longevity of the gasoline over winter. There is a new product called “StarTron” which claims to be enzyme-based and superior to Sta-Bil, which has been on the market for awhile. I bought some StarTron and dosed all the vintage iron with it in November, as well as the can of gas I use for the leaf blower. At this time, I can’t report on how well it compares to Sta-Bil, one way or the other. My experience with Sta-Bil is that it seems to lose effectiveness after four months.
StarTron is pricier than Sta-Bil, but I found the best price at West Marine. Just be sure to get the StarTron product for gasoline engines rather than for diesels.
I use Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO)– at the dosage Paul recommends — with success. Before using it, I’d been getting a sticky valve on one or the other of the two Series 80s about once a year. Strictly from a theoretical standpoint (I offer no science here), I use it rather than 2-cycle oil because MMO is naphtha-based and thus reportedly fosters the breakdown of hard carbon combustion chamber deposits into soft carbon which then sloughs off and is blown out the exhaust system. MMO was developed in the 1920s to address the problem of the poor-quality gasoline available at the time necessitated that cylinder heads had to be removed and “de-carbonized” every 15,000 miles or so. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice
George
There is some confusion on 1929-30 cars, especially those produced late in 1929. I’m sure some 1929-30 owners will be able to correct any misinformation I may give you here!
It looks like EITHER a 1929 Model 133 or an early 1930 Model C–both have the louvered hood sides. Two wheelbases were offered in 1929 with the model designation reflecting the wheelbase: 133 and 143. In 1930, three models were offered: A (144 wb, 385 cid engine), B (134 wb on open cars, 139 wb on closed cars, both with 366 cid engine), and C (132 wb, 340 cid engine).
Identifying numbers for those cars are:
1929 133: seven digit chassis number (on rectangular plate riveted to frame–see ID Wizard) beginning with 200…; engine number is “A-[four numbers].
1930 C: seven digit serial (chassis) number beginning with 100…; engine number is six digits beginning with 10…..
The title may have either one number or the other.
By policy, PAS identifies cars by the serial (chassis) number. However, many of the rectangular serial tags have disappeared over the years, so you will see the entry “MISSING” instead of a serial number for a considerable number of cars.
See the ID Wizard for the locations of the numbers. When you get one, enter it in the Wizard and you’ll know what the car is.
George
Definitely the same car. That one has made the rounds of many auctions for the past 10 years (I’ve tracked it). Hyman probably lost money on that one: bought it for $100K reported hammer price at Scottsdale in 2005, sold it at Boca Raton in 2006 for a reported $92.5K 13 months later after advertising it at $189K in Hemmings for >8 months (I saw it at Springfield meet and at Hershey in 2005).
I think Imperial Palace had it offered on its website for $225K a couple of years ago.
It’s an 8 and a very nice resto, circa 1988, with great upholstery. Some surface rust on right side of engine–fuel pump screws and manifold flange–attention to those would have helped. Bland body colors are its worst problem.
Wish somebody other than a speculator would buy it and drive it!!!
Series 80 (except limo) used a single key for everything (ignition, door lock, and spare tire) from the factory, and probably S81 is the same.
Key blank was easily available 10 yrs ago at a GOOD local locksmith–“Yale Junior” if I recall correctly. Because a then-young nephew lost my only key, I drove my S80 to the locksmith, and he manipulated the door lock cylinder and got a key that worked in 30 minutes. If you are pulling the ignition & light combination switch anyway (which might be a good bit of work), you might leave a combo switch at a local locksmith.
George
Bob is right on the formulae for calculating area and circumference of a circle. My sixth-grade teacher would have me in a corner wearing a dunce cap! Thanks, Bob!
Any ideas on the most practical location to enhance an 8-cylinder’s pipe size?
George
