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The Nethercutt Model A (dark blue)had a number of authenticity liberties taken during its restoration many years ago. For example, apparently to be able to use P-A wheels and hubcaps (rather than the Chev/GMC truck 14-spoke artillery wheels which are correct), the restorers put a P-A solid front axle dropped about 6 inches under the trailer, which makes it stand 6-12″ too tall. Travelodges were all independently sprung with tubular leading arms and 1/4-elliptic trailing arms–which make them tow especially well. The wood is, I think, too dark and has a high-gloss lacquer finish which photographs beautifully and looks great so long as you don’t remain inside for more than 3 minutes, after which the glare REALLY gets to you. The Servel gas refrigerator is a nice period piece but is not authentic to the Travelodge.
Mr. Leno did not seem to understand that the Model B shown at Pebble is a 85-90%-original condition barn find. The matte aluminum finish on that trailer had been clear-coated. The wood in that trailer is dark from age of the finish, as they all seem to get.
George
Greg has covered this very well, but let me add this: Before installing the new tires and the 17″ tubes, I had spent the better part of a day dressing each wheel’s inside portion with very fine sandpaper to preclude any sharp or semi-sharp edges, and ensuring that the bands (which prevent the tube from rubbing where the steel artillery spokes are attached) were in good condition. I also used Metal-Prep on the bare steel, followed by a very thin coat of rust-preventing primer, then let the wheels dry for a couple of days.
The two 17″ tubes failed on the bonded seams. After installing the 16.5″ radial truck tubes, which are considerably heavier/thicker than the the 17″ tubes furnished with the tires, I’ve had no further problems.
George
Some of the brands (e.g. “Hastings Cool”) require 30%-60% anti-freeze to be effective, which I infer means that the anti-corrosion in that brand is a supplement to that in the anti-freeze and therefore not sufficient by itself.
I heard that Pencool makes both “2000” and “3000” — one is for use WITH a usual mix of anti-freeze, the other with straight water. I haven’t checked their website.
George
Hi Bill, please bring a set to the meet for me. George
Bob, when I said “two sets” earlier in the thread, I should have said I need sets for two cars–meaning that I need eight (8)clips. Will send a check ASAP incl s&h. If you’re coming to the meet, I can pick up there if it’s better for you. Otherwise, please don’t ship till after the meet.
VBR, George
To add to Paul’s information:
1. Try to re-install the nut on the first 2 or 3 threads which banging on the hub puller so that the hub won’t come flying off and possibly cause injury. The hub only has to move 1/4 inch or less on the axle’s taper to break free.
2. I read a couple of years ago (in Skinned Knuckles?) that we should NOT put anti-seize compound on axle tapers when re-installing, because the friction between the taper and hub is desirable and reduces wear. Does anyone have a better recollection or can you cite a reference, one way or the other? Accordingly, the last hub I re-installed (last Sept)got a thin coat of silicone lube, which I first sprayed onto a paper towel well away from the car. That said, I used anti-seize for 25 years with no apparent ill effects.
3. On one Pierce with extremely difficult to remove hubs (16 years ago), I followed an oldtimer’s advice to leave both rear wheels on, loosen nuts on both rear axles, then jack one side (only)of the car up and bang on that one–which would loosen the hub on the ground on the other side. That worked on one side, anyway.
Greg,
I collaborated with Arnold Romberg a couple of years ago on a PASB article (PASB 2007-6) on the advance issue in my Delco 668-E distributor (same as yours). It’s NOT among the PASB issues currently on the website).
The short version is that I found that some previous owner had substituted weight springs, so that my 1930 Model B distributor achieved only 6 degrees of DISTRIBUTOR advance vs the 9 (or 9.5, or 10, different sources) required by published specs. The data published in the PAS Wiring and Tuneup Guide uses ENGINE rpm/advance–18* at 3300 (which is equivalent to 9 degrees at 1650 DISTRIBUTOR rpm. Suggest checking advance at published MAX rpm; advance at lower rpms will take care of itself. Remember that ENGINE degrees and advance have twice the values of DISTRIBUTOR degrees and advance.
The guy who did mine substituted springs from wrecking yard takeouts until he got proper advance. What a difference in performance, and it improved cooling at speed on hot days because the spark was no longer retarded! Be sure to re-bush the distributor if necessary while it’s out.
I know of a 1931 restored Model 41, using the same distributor, that I could tell was very retarded, and the car had cooling and performance issues. I suggested that the advance springs be checked. The existing springs in that distributor were later described as “miniature garage door springs”” that allowed minimal advance! Substituting proper-weight springs greatly enhanced both performance and cooling.
Good luck!
George”
Bob, please count me in for 2 sets. George Teebay
I’m pretty sure than 1931-36 Hudson door latch (curlicue-type) springs interchange with Pierce 1929-38.
George
Sorry–I neglected to give credit where credit is due. When Vince first contacted us, it was Paul Jacobs who developed not only the model ID but also the Arrow #75-4 reference for this specific truck.
George
That’s the Model 13S385 truck owned by PAS member Vince Martinico in Auburn, CA (contact info in roster section of this website). I have not seen the truck myself, but I corresponded with Vince when he first acquired it. That truck is also the subject of a one-page article in Arrow #75-4, and the 13S385 catalog page (photo + specs) is on the rear cover of that issue. This truck uses the 385 cid 8-cylinder engine. The ’13’ in the model designation indicates 13,000 lbs gross weight, and the ‘385’ is, of course, the engine displacement in cubic inches.
George
Carl,
Contact our member Rich Lange in California (see online roster). I understand he had a new windshield frame made up for his 1933 1236 (should be same frame), although I have not seen it.
Best regards, George
Mike,
For your aluminum head (correct for all Series 81 and for the last 600 Series 80s), I’d go 5 lbs below that recommended for iron heads. For my two S80s with iron heads, I use 60-65.
For both, it’s important to use a dental pick or similar tool to clean and debris from around the base of the studs where they emerge from the block, so that the gasket will seat well in those areas. I also use an aerosol copper coating on both sides of the head gasket.
Torque pattern: No specific pattern was recommended in those years. I start with the center stud in the center longitudinal row, then the two outside studs (left and right) adjacent to the first one. The next two are the center-row studs just outboard, front and rear. Then I go diagonally (e.g., right rear, left front, left rear, right front) adjoining the two center studs just torqued. Use the latter technique for the remaining studs. I may be ‘way too particular, but my first pass is at 35 lbs/ft, then 45, then in 5-lb increments from there. Do the final torque reading (55/60, as you prefer–but no more than 60), TWICE.
Note well Bill Rolapp’s comment: Never re-torque when engine is hot–re-torque only when the engine has cooled sufficiently so that it’s not uncomfortable to put the palm of your hand on the head for 10 seconds. I prefer to re-torque at least three times, and you will still get some movement of the nuts on the 3rd re-torque.
George
Further to Dave’s comments on the brakes: First, for almost any mechanical-brake car whose parking or ‘hand’ brake operates on the wheel brakes, when the hand brake is applied (‘on’) as when you are parked, you will always have a low pedal–lower than when the hand brake is off.
The 1933-35 mechanical power brakes have a low pedal (with hand brake ‘on’ or off’) when not moving. That’s LOW, not ‘on the floor.’ There are adjustments for pedal height and for the sensitivity of the power assist, and these are covered in several Service Bulletins.
My own experience is that you should lift your foot off the floor and touch the brake pedal near its actuating arm, just like a regular brake pedal–rather than to flex your foot as we do on our accelerator pedals. I think the accelerator-type pedal used as a brake pedal on the 1933-35 cars was principally a gimmick, as I can’t become comfortable using it that way on my 1934.
Mika, first make sure each wheel can turn freely, then check to see if each wheel’s operating mechanism at the backing plate moves while an assistant steps on the brake. You MAY have some rusted brake cables.
I prefer to disconnect the power assist from the front and rear brake rods (transmission vicinity), then adjust each wheel brake individually, then re-connect and go about the other adjustments. Expect some trial and error.
Pierce-Arrow Travelodge travel trailers were built only as 1937 models, rather unimaginatively termed Model A (19′ can), Model B (16.5 ft can), and Model C (13.5 ft can). See recent trailer thread. I have a Model A that was at Redmond Meet in 2006 with decently-but-not-perfectly-restored interior, needs paint. Will try to attach pic. A total of about 500 trailers were built over probably only a 5-month period–at least 149 A’s, 261 B’s, and 100 C’s per known highest serial numbers. List price on a ‘A’ was the same as TWO new 1937 Ford or Chev coupes.
George
Hi Tony,
McCord 5788 is for Stude 8, Models 92 and 93 only, per my 1940 McCord catalog. This is NOT listed in the Studebaker section, but only in the numerical lists at the back of the book (what they call Section B-1).
Victor 954 is Pierce 8, 1936-38, per 1945 Victor Master Catalog. Presumably the steel side goes to the aluminum head. I’d think that gasket would work for aluminum heads even if on earlier block.
Victor 736 is Stude President 8, 1929-32 (1945 Victor catalog).
Our own Parts & Service Directory shows Fitzgerald 911-PA for 1929-35 P-A 8 [iron heads] and 911-PA-DE for 1936-38 [alum heads].
Happy holidays, all!
George
Clay, By no means do I consider myself a ‘guru,’ but I have a Model A with a decently-but-not perfectly restored interior that awaits exterior restoration. Look for the big 2-tone blue one among the pix of the 2006 Nat’l Meet in Redmond, OR.
The INTERIOR is the greatest determinant of value: how many original fixtures (heater, stove, icebox, lamps, etc) are in the offered Travelodge?
Travelodges are delightful to tow–you hardly know they’re back there, largely due to independent suspension (no axle, tubular leading arm for each spindle and 1/4-elliptic spring for trailing arm.
Their greatest problem is electrolytic corrosion between the steel frame and the aluminum skin (resulting in deterioration at the bottom of the skin) which were separated by what we call tarpaper today. This can be dealt with…
Feel free to email me at my Roster address (see e-Roster in Members Section) for more info. Don’t be dismayed when my spamblocker sends you an automated msg–I clean out the limbo box half a dozen times a day.
George
Doug and I talked tonight. My e-mails may be in his spam trap. My e-mail address in the paper and online rosters IS correct. Thx, George
Just before the national meet in Temecula this year, I ordered five new Bedford 700 x 17 tires from Lucas for my 1934 8-cyl Silver Arrow, and also ordered five tubes from them at the same time. After the old tires and tubes were removed, I spent the better part of a day ‘dressing’ the interior surfaces of all five wheels, and ensuring that the rubber band around the rivets was in good condition and properly positioned. The inside of the wheels was as smooth as a baby’s bottom! I supervised the installation of the new tires and tubes at my usual local tire store, where they know I’m picky but accommodate me anyway (a tip to the tire installer works wonders). They used a proper amount of tire talc and spread it around thoroughly in the casings. I put very few miles on the new tires before driving to the meet. Itinerary both directions was through the Mojave Desert, with temps up to 110 degrees.
Had TWO flats on the return trip, one near the town of Mojave–at 110 degrees or close to it, and the other a day later south of San Jose at about 80 degrees. As originally planned, we spent the first return night in Bakersfield, where I sought out the oldest tire dealer in town and bought a 16-inch truck tube (all that was available on a Saturday) which seemed to fit the wheel better than the 700/750 x 17 tube furnished by Lucas.
We closely examined both failed tubes, orienting them to the respective wheels, and found no rough spots on the wheels that could have caused the tube failures. We determined that both tubes had developed small longitudinal splits immediately adjoining and parallel to the bonded seams–leading me to deduce that the Lucas rubber is too thin. I ended up replacing ALL the Lucas tubes with 16-inch truck tubes, which were substantially heavier then those from Lucas. I’ve since put at least 500 miles on the replacement tubes, more than half of them in 90-100-degree weather, without incident.
Accordingly, I will NOT use Lucas-furnished tubes in the future, but will stay with locally-procured 16-inch truck tubes. BTW, the Lucas tubes had NO manufacturer or country of origin marked on them, only the size. I am VERY pleased with the Bedford tires, however; even the two that suffered flats survived that trauma without damage, and they were certainly inspected thoroughly.
George
Mika and Tony,
I’ve had five Pierce and one Paige water pumps re-engineered by our member Jerry Washburn in California–three of those pumps have been in service for 13-14 years without problems. Jerry is a retired Master Machinist and has been a good friend for 35 years. He has done pumps for a number of PAS members. Jerry replaces the bushings with sealed bearings, then machines out the housing to accept modern seals from the Grainger (a major industrial supply dealer in the U.S.) catalog. When he finishes, there is no more packing and the grease cup is strictly decorative–no more water pump grease, and no packing to tighten every so often. He charges about $300 USD (plus shipping) to re-engineer an 8-cylinder pump if there are no complications, such as an eroded impeller. Reproduction impellers are available. Cooling seems to be a recurring issue for most prewar cars, and this process helps a great deal to make your car reliable in that area. You can probably get a similar process accomplished in Finland.
Tony, e-mail me for latest phone numbers and hours for Jerry if you are interested in having him do your Stude pump–by the way, he has a 1928-1/2 President 8 roadster.
George
