There is some confusion on 1929-30 cars, especially those produced late in 1929. I’m sure some 1929-30 owners will be able to correct any misinformation I may give you here!
It looks like EITHER a 1929 Model 133 or an early 1930 Model C–both have the louvered hood sides. Two wheelbases were offered in 1929 with the model designation reflecting the wheelbase: 133 and 143. In 1930, three models were offered: A (144 wb, 385 cid engine), B (134 wb on open cars, 139 wb on closed cars, both with 366 cid engine), and C (132 wb, 340 cid engine).
Identifying numbers for those cars are:
1929 133: seven digit chassis number (on rectangular plate riveted to frame–see ID Wizard) beginning with 200…; engine number is “A-[four numbers].
1930 C: seven digit serial (chassis) number beginning with 100…; engine number is six digits beginning with 10…..
The title may have either one number or the other.
By policy, PAS identifies cars by the serial (chassis) number. However, many of the rectangular serial tags have disappeared over the years, so you will see the entry “MISSING” instead of a serial number for a considerable number of cars.
See the ID Wizard for the locations of the numbers. When you get one, enter it in the Wizard and you’ll know what the car is.
George
Definitely the same car. That one has made the rounds of many auctions for the past 10 years (I’ve tracked it). Hyman probably lost money on that one: bought it for $100K reported hammer price at Scottsdale in 2005, sold it at Boca Raton in 2006 for a reported $92.5K 13 months later after advertising it at $189K in Hemmings for >8 months (I saw it at Springfield meet and at Hershey in 2005).
I think Imperial Palace had it offered on its website for $225K a couple of years ago.
It’s an 8 and a very nice resto, circa 1988, with great upholstery. Some surface rust on right side of engine–fuel pump screws and manifold flange–attention to those would have helped. Bland body colors are its worst problem.
Wish somebody other than a speculator would buy it and drive it!!!
Series 80 (except limo) used a single key for everything (ignition, door lock, and spare tire) from the factory, and probably S81 is the same.
Key blank was easily available 10 yrs ago at a GOOD local locksmith–“Yale Junior” if I recall correctly. Because a then-young nephew lost my only key, I drove my S80 to the locksmith, and he manipulated the door lock cylinder and got a key that worked in 30 minutes. If you are pulling the ignition & light combination switch anyway (which might be a good bit of work), you might leave a combo switch at a local locksmith.
George
Bob is right on the formulae for calculating area and circumference of a circle. My sixth-grade teacher would have me in a corner wearing a dunce cap! Thanks, Bob!
Any ideas on the most practical location to enhance an 8-cylinder’s pipe size?
George
John,
I’m not an engineer like you are, but I calculate the cross section incremental increase from 2″ pipe to 2.5″ pipe as 25%, not 50%.
The round cross section formula (= that for the area of a circle) is, I think, 2 x pi (3.1416) x r(radius) which would give 6.2832 sq in for 2″ pipe, and 7.854 sq in for 2.5″ pipe, for an increase of 25%. This is still very much worth doing, in my opinion, but if my calcs are correct, the additional exhaust evacuation potential is 25%.
It would seem we are still limited by the exhaust flange diameter and the ability to make a radius bend to go from vertical (downpipe) to horizontal pipe (under car) direction, even though the horizontal pipe may ‘grow’ to 2.5 inches, which would seem to reduce the 25% improvement a bit. Does anyone have any suggestions for using the maximum possible diameter for the downpipe using a factory flange?
George
Dan,
Try Lock-n-Stitch in Turlock, CA (south of Modesto on US 99). Their entire business is casting repair. They are (or were, at least) the vendor of choice to Waste Management (trash conglomerate) and the Northern Calif Caterpillar distributor. Their process is thoroughly explained on their website, http://www.locknstitch.com/
Perhaps 8 yrs ago they repaired my Series 80 block, which had a couple of small valve seat cracks + a monster crack that went from the #2 exhaust valve seat across the deck and into the #2 bore to a depth of 2-2.5 inches. They strongly urged me to NOT sleeve that cylinder if at all possible (I didn’t). They pressure tested the repaired block to 30 psi, so they said. I had to use a coarse hone followed by a fine hone on #2 cylinder bore. I used the same pistons, and used fine hone on the other 5 cylinders, then new rings, of course. I have at least 2-3,000 miles on the engine with no indications of further cracking. Including hard seats for exhaust valves, the bill was a little over $600, but that was 8 or more years ago–a pleasant surprise.
They are true professionals, and casting repair is ALL they do. I’d use them again in a heartbeat.
When planing your S80 head, take just enough off to make it flat. The mating surface of the head was arguably too thin from the factory, and the head has probably been planed half a dozen times over the years. Be sure to use a dental pick to get all the crud away from the studs where they emerge from the block, so you get a proper seal. Suggest you use a copper sandwich gasket (rather than a composite one) and give each side of the new gasket a couple of coats of aerosol gasket copper (I use Permatex’s product), following the directions on the can.
Good luck and please keep us posted on the results!
George
The Nethercutt Model A (dark blue)had a number of authenticity liberties taken during its restoration many years ago. For example, apparently to be able to use P-A wheels and hubcaps (rather than the Chev/GMC truck 14-spoke artillery wheels which are correct), the restorers put a P-A solid front axle dropped about 6 inches under the trailer, which makes it stand 6-12″ too tall. Travelodges were all independently sprung with tubular leading arms and 1/4-elliptic trailing arms–which make them tow especially well. The wood is, I think, too dark and has a high-gloss lacquer finish which photographs beautifully and looks great so long as you don’t remain inside for more than 3 minutes, after which the glare REALLY gets to you. The Servel gas refrigerator is a nice period piece but is not authentic to the Travelodge.
Mr. Leno did not seem to understand that the Model B shown at Pebble is a 85-90%-original condition barn find. The matte aluminum finish on that trailer had been clear-coated. The wood in that trailer is dark from age of the finish, as they all seem to get.
George
Greg has covered this very well, but let me add this: Before installing the new tires and the 17″ tubes, I had spent the better part of a day dressing each wheel’s inside portion with very fine sandpaper to preclude any sharp or semi-sharp edges, and ensuring that the bands (which prevent the tube from rubbing where the steel artillery spokes are attached) were in good condition. I also used Metal-Prep on the bare steel, followed by a very thin coat of rust-preventing primer, then let the wheels dry for a couple of days.
The two 17″ tubes failed on the bonded seams. After installing the 16.5″ radial truck tubes, which are considerably heavier/thicker than the the 17″ tubes furnished with the tires, I’ve had no further problems.
George
Some of the brands (e.g. “Hastings Cool”) require 30%-60% anti-freeze to be effective, which I infer means that the anti-corrosion in that brand is a supplement to that in the anti-freeze and therefore not sufficient by itself.
I heard that Pencool makes both “2000” and “3000” — one is for use WITH a usual mix of anti-freeze, the other with straight water. I haven’t checked their website.
George
Hi Bill, please bring a set to the meet for me. George
Bob, when I said “two sets” earlier in the thread, I should have said I need sets for two cars–meaning that I need eight (8)clips. Will send a check ASAP incl s&h. If you’re coming to the meet, I can pick up there if it’s better for you. Otherwise, please don’t ship till after the meet.
VBR, George
To add to Paul’s information:
1. Try to re-install the nut on the first 2 or 3 threads which banging on the hub puller so that the hub won’t come flying off and possibly cause injury. The hub only has to move 1/4 inch or less on the axle’s taper to break free.
2. I read a couple of years ago (in Skinned Knuckles?) that we should NOT put anti-seize compound on axle tapers when re-installing, because the friction between the taper and hub is desirable and reduces wear. Does anyone have a better recollection or can you cite a reference, one way or the other? Accordingly, the last hub I re-installed (last Sept)got a thin coat of silicone lube, which I first sprayed onto a paper towel well away from the car. That said, I used anti-seize for 25 years with no apparent ill effects.
3. On one Pierce with extremely difficult to remove hubs (16 years ago), I followed an oldtimer’s advice to leave both rear wheels on, loosen nuts on both rear axles, then jack one side (only)of the car up and bang on that one–which would loosen the hub on the ground on the other side. That worked on one side, anyway.
Greg,
I collaborated with Arnold Romberg a couple of years ago on a PASB article (PASB 2007-6) on the advance issue in my Delco 668-E distributor (same as yours). It’s NOT among the PASB issues currently on the website).
The short version is that I found that some previous owner had substituted weight springs, so that my 1930 Model B distributor achieved only 6 degrees of DISTRIBUTOR advance vs the 9 (or 9.5, or 10, different sources) required by published specs. The data published in the PAS Wiring and Tuneup Guide uses ENGINE rpm/advance–18* at 3300 (which is equivalent to 9 degrees at 1650 DISTRIBUTOR rpm. Suggest checking advance at published MAX rpm; advance at lower rpms will take care of itself. Remember that ENGINE degrees and advance have twice the values of DISTRIBUTOR degrees and advance.
The guy who did mine substituted springs from wrecking yard takeouts until he got proper advance. What a difference in performance, and it improved cooling at speed on hot days because the spark was no longer retarded! Be sure to re-bush the distributor if necessary while it’s out.
I know of a 1931 restored Model 41, using the same distributor, that I could tell was very retarded, and the car had cooling and performance issues. I suggested that the advance springs be checked. The existing springs in that distributor were later described as “miniature garage door springs”” that allowed minimal advance! Substituting proper-weight springs greatly enhanced both performance and cooling.
Good luck!
George”
Bob, please count me in for 2 sets. George Teebay
I’m pretty sure than 1931-36 Hudson door latch (curlicue-type) springs interchange with Pierce 1929-38.
George
Sorry–I neglected to give credit where credit is due. When Vince first contacted us, it was Paul Jacobs who developed not only the model ID but also the Arrow #75-4 reference for this specific truck.
George
That’s the Model 13S385 truck owned by PAS member Vince Martinico in Auburn, CA (contact info in roster section of this website). I have not seen the truck myself, but I corresponded with Vince when he first acquired it. That truck is also the subject of a one-page article in Arrow #75-4, and the 13S385 catalog page (photo + specs) is on the rear cover of that issue. This truck uses the 385 cid 8-cylinder engine. The ’13’ in the model designation indicates 13,000 lbs gross weight, and the ‘385’ is, of course, the engine displacement in cubic inches.
George
Carl,
Contact our member Rich Lange in California (see online roster). I understand he had a new windshield frame made up for his 1933 1236 (should be same frame), although I have not seen it.
Best regards, George
Mike,
For your aluminum head (correct for all Series 81 and for the last 600 Series 80s), I’d go 5 lbs below that recommended for iron heads. For my two S80s with iron heads, I use 60-65.
For both, it’s important to use a dental pick or similar tool to clean and debris from around the base of the studs where they emerge from the block, so that the gasket will seat well in those areas. I also use an aerosol copper coating on both sides of the head gasket.
Torque pattern: No specific pattern was recommended in those years. I start with the center stud in the center longitudinal row, then the two outside studs (left and right) adjacent to the first one. The next two are the center-row studs just outboard, front and rear. Then I go diagonally (e.g., right rear, left front, left rear, right front) adjoining the two center studs just torqued. Use the latter technique for the remaining studs. I may be ‘way too particular, but my first pass is at 35 lbs/ft, then 45, then in 5-lb increments from there. Do the final torque reading (55/60, as you prefer–but no more than 60), TWICE.
Note well Bill Rolapp’s comment: Never re-torque when engine is hot–re-torque only when the engine has cooled sufficiently so that it’s not uncomfortable to put the palm of your hand on the head for 10 seconds. I prefer to re-torque at least three times, and you will still get some movement of the nuts on the 3rd re-torque.
George
Further to Dave’s comments on the brakes: First, for almost any mechanical-brake car whose parking or ‘hand’ brake operates on the wheel brakes, when the hand brake is applied (‘on’) as when you are parked, you will always have a low pedal–lower than when the hand brake is off.
The 1933-35 mechanical power brakes have a low pedal (with hand brake ‘on’ or off’) when not moving. That’s LOW, not ‘on the floor.’ There are adjustments for pedal height and for the sensitivity of the power assist, and these are covered in several Service Bulletins.
My own experience is that you should lift your foot off the floor and touch the brake pedal near its actuating arm, just like a regular brake pedal–rather than to flex your foot as we do on our accelerator pedals. I think the accelerator-type pedal used as a brake pedal on the 1933-35 cars was principally a gimmick, as I can’t become comfortable using it that way on my 1934.
Mika, first make sure each wheel can turn freely, then check to see if each wheel’s operating mechanism at the backing plate moves while an assistant steps on the brake. You MAY have some rusted brake cables.
I prefer to disconnect the power assist from the front and rear brake rods (transmission vicinity), then adjust each wheel brake individually, then re-connect and go about the other adjustments. Expect some trial and error.