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Congratulations, Fay!
Thank you for sharing your passion with a new generation of enthusiasts.
Bob Jacobsen
Joe,
If you haven’t already looked at it, PASB 73-5 explains how to overhaul the clutch, and how to install springs.
Cheers,
Bob Jacobsen
First of all, I also don’t like to modify anything from original, but the gas situation warrants it, IMHO. My solution to vapor lock is a gas return line. I installed a return line (the same diameter as the feed line, I think 5/16″) from a tee at the carburetor on my ’33 8 cyl, and never had a vapor lock problem again. I use a Carter 4259 (I think) rotary electric pump that pumps about 40 gals/hour. When the car is off and heat builds up under the hood, it takes about 30 seconds to bring cool fuel from the tank to the carb (using the momentary contact switch to run the pump before starting the engine). My pressure regulator (and gauge)is installed on the return line, under the car, just before it dumps back into the fuel tank, so the whole system is at about 1-1/2 pounds of pressure.
My ’34 had a very small return line (about 1/16″) installed on it when I bought it, but that did NOT work. It vapor locked along with everybody else’s. The return line has to be able to move a large quantity of fuel.
My ’33 lines are parallel and covered with asphalt woven covering, so look somewhat correct, except there are two of them.
A possible more aesthetic solution would be to find a siamese line, two lines joined together, and wrapped with a single asphalt woven tube.
Cheers,
Bob
Bill,
The hole is a “vent” as described in the Ross bulletin, with no plug.
It is oriented at 9 0’clock, pointing toward the left fender.
Instructions are to fill the box through the big pipe plug about 1/2 way down the box (not the adjusting plug above it), with steering gear lubricant, until it runs out the vent.
Bob
Hi William,
My 836 7-pass sedan has the floorboards out right now, so I can measure the column. I can’t tell you the overall length (because part is inserted in the box, and part is inserted in the steering wheel), but the distance that is exposed between the box collar and the base of the steering wheel hub is 40 and 3/16″. The ’33 parts book says all columns are the same length except the Enclosed Drive Limo, whose steering wheel is also different. The parts book is pretty accurate on what models used different parts, so I would believe the 7-pass is like all other models, and not like the Limo (although I don’t know what the difference is. I would guess that they reduced the space in the chauffeur’s compartment to add the division window).
(I have a ’34 column and box, and a ’34 in a car that I could measure, but they are different part #’s, so don’t know if that would be apples to apples.)
And don’t forget the 3/16″ diameter hole in the tube for the box lubricant fill overflow, 7/8″ up from the box collar.
Hope this helps,
Bob
Hi Richard,
To my knowledge, 1933 836 and 1236 were the only all steel door bodies.
Bob
Looks like Mother Nature’s winning…
Hi Richard,
As far as the parts book goes, it looks like all closed 836/1236 had the same w/s, except the coupe and coupe/roadster. I don’t know why N/C has 2 patterns. I can’t find the number I used for my ’33 836 7-p right now (Rich Lange used the same one for his 5-p 1236), but maybe it’ll turn up later.
Bob
Jim,
Make sure that the springs in the distributor advance plate are correct, so that you actually get spark advance at higher rpm. (Check running engine with a timing light or meter, looking thru the little cover on the flywheel housing.) I have seen engines put together with .050″ thick spring wire instead of about .035″ (can’t remember exactly), and they didn’t move!
Cheers,
Bob
Richard,
In case you’re wondering what parts on that eBay chassis might fit your 836 (or 1236 if you decide to make it a 12): Definitely the transmission, and power brake unit (if they’re any good). (Exactly the same part #’s except power brake case, which has 2 extra mounting bolt holes for the ’34 – just don’t use them.)
BTW – it would be a good investment for you to buy a ’33 parts book reprint from the PAS library (and maybe a ’34-’35) if you don’t already have one, to determine interchangeability on stuff like this.
The bell housing will not fit an 8, but will probably fit a ’33 12.
The rear axle/differential will fit, but is not correct (it looks very different, much larger, w/4 bearing bolts sticking out of the helmet, with provision for a torque arm that would not be used.) The 836/1236 originally used a worm drive which gave a lot of problems, so in ’34 the P-A factory issued a bulletin that recommended replacing it with a ’34/’35 hypoid 8-cyl. unit (which I have done in my ’33). So that’s the one you want.
The steering and front axle assembly parts all have different part numbers, so probably won’t work – I don’t know. (The box is very different.)
Brakes have most p/n’s matching, so would probably work (except cables will be different length).
Right front spring is same as 1236. Left is different.
Rear springs are different p/n’s. 8’s have less leaves in front.
That’s about it.
Cheers,
Bob
Hi All,
Just looked in my parts books to confirm my recollection:
All 1933 8’s and small 12’s, and all ’34s and ’35s (as Paul said) used the same part # (703170), which is the black ball with a ridge but no silver band.
The ’33 big 12’s (1242 & 1247) and all 1932’s used a different part # (701080), which is the one with the silver band.
The 1931’s used a different shape (#750914), with a button in the center for the free-wheeling control.
The 1930’s used #123850, which appears (from the ’30 catalog) to have the silver band.
All that being said, if I walked in to a P-A salesroom and said I’ll buy the car if you put on a silver band shift knob, you know what they would do.
Cheers,
Bob
Hi Richard,
You are referring to Evans waterless coolant, which is nothing more than pure ethylene glycol antifreeze (with no water in it). The anti-corrosion and anti-boiling properties are excellent and beyond reproach, but the cooling leaves something to be desired, in my opinion.
Ethylene glycol has only 70% of the heat-carrying capacity of water. So your engine will run about 20-30% hotter than with water. This can have several effects:
(1) With the higher volatility of today’s gasoline, and the already present propensity toward vapor lock, the car will vapor lock at slighter provocations – ambient temperature over 70*, altitude over a thousand feet, hill climbing, etc.
(2) You will be anxious seeing your temp gauge liquid at the top of its range all the time.
(3) If your engine has valve seat inserts, the higher operating temperature could shorten their life – they may start loosening up prematurely due to wider temperature cycling range.
I try to run my cars at the lowest practical temp – heat is the enemy.
Water is THE best cooling liquid. You can add additives for corrosion protection (Nalcool, Pencool, etc.) and drain the block for storage times.
Running a 50-50 antifreeze/water mixture will cool better than pure Evans (but worse than pure water) and have some corrosion protection, but may foam in your Pierce.
The one area that pure ethylene glycol will cool better is in areas in the block that tend to have low flow rates, and the coolant lingers in a hot spot until it boils at that spot (even though the average block temp is OK). These mini-boiling areas then get even hotter since there is only steam contact, and can damage valves and seats, etc. The Evans coolant will not boil at these spots.
Evans would be ideal if the water pump and radiator were designed for it – with a 30% greater flow rate and radiating surface – so the engine would operate in the temp range it was designed for.
(There is an argument that engines operate more efficiently at higher temps, but I haven’t researched it.)
That being said, I know Restoration Supply (Escondido, CA) sells it for $35 a gallon. (I tried some in my ’38 Buick.) You can order some and try it for yourself. I bought a higher flow radiator core for my ’33 and when I install it I may try Evans again.
Regards,
Bob
Hi Richard,
Are you working on a stock 1933 P-A 836? I’ve had my 8-cyl 7-passenger sedan for 40 years now.
Anyhow, I have an extra grill (shutter) assembly, in good shape (the center vertical stationary rib is slightly bent, but can easily be straightened, the shutters are straight, covered in silver paint and will probably need to be rechromed).
Let me know if you still need this, and I will come up with a price including boxing and shipping.
Also, you can buy a NEW manufactured windshield frame (no rust-outs to ooze thru plating, etc.) They are available from N/C Industries Antique Auto Parts, 301 South Thomas Ave., P.O. Box 254, Sayre, PA 18840;
570-888-6216. They have many patterns for old car w/s frames, and they are exactly like original, and FIT. (Note to Parts and Services page!)
Regards,
Bob Jacobsen
Is that the one that reads up to the speed of light?
Hi Mika,
There will be no action or movement of the brake actuators when the brake pedal is pushed, unless the car (driveshaft) is MOVING. The brake pedal is merely a “switch” that turns the power brakes on, driven by the internal clutch in the power brake unit behind the tranny. The emergency brake lever, however, should pull the cables on and actuate the brakes when the car is both moving and at rest. The full Stewart-Warner power brake brochure is reprinted in PASB 74-1, and a short P-A publication explanation is in ARROW 66-2.
Cheers,
Bob Jacobsen
Hi David,
I had the pleasure of providing 16mm footage of Ab’s 1932 Pierce run to that film, and am listed in the credits. They did a good job of telling Ab’s story, and publicizing the Mormon Meteor. My only issue with the film is that they did not tell about the 1934 Pierce run (I tried to convince them to, but the usual time limitations were cited).
Cheers,
Bob
Hi Oivind,
I couldn’t tell from the pictures, but you may want to make sure that the 6 cone nuts that adjust the release levers have sufficient material left (in the right spots) to peen over into the bolt slots and lock the nuts (using a locking punch made from a cold chisel as pictured in the Long clutch bulletin or PASB 73-5).
On my ’33 several nuts had loosened and the clutch would not release properly (and the nuts were in danger of coming off!).
Since I could not find new cone nuts, I took new long brass nuts and drilled a 1/16″ hole thru each face (near the top end), and then installed small cotter pins thru the bolt slots when the nuts were adjusted to the right position.
Best regards,
Bob
Ed,
Which ones are you calling “correct”” and “”incorrect””?
Bob”
Hi Tim,
The 1932 to 1938 V-12’s (as well as the 8’s) did not have what we now think of as conventional thermostats that control the flow of water (in the cylinder head water outlets).
Instead, they had a (one) bellows assembly in the upper radiator tank, filled with ether, that would expand when the temp reached about 165, and push a lever that cranked the grille shutters open, allowing air to pass thru the radiator. The original units were titled “Sylphon”, and reproductions are still available.
Any attempt to put conventional thermostats in would be redundant at best, and could hinder the cooling system.
Cheers,
Bob
And of course you old timers know how to check if an axle is cracked (at a swap meet or somewhere where you are not close to a magnaflux unit):
Hold the axle up by two fingers under the bearing flange, hit the spline end with a hammer, and see how long the axle rings. If a P-A size axle rings for about 30 seconds (hold your ear close, to note when the ringing completely dies out), it has no cracks. About half that time (depending where the crack is) means it has a crack.
Cheers,
Bob
