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Hi Richard,

To my knowledge, 1933 836 and 1236 were the only all steel door bodies.

Bob

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Looks like Mother Nature’s winning…

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Hi Richard,

As far as the parts book goes, it looks like all closed 836/1236 had the same w/s, except the coupe and coupe/roadster. I don’t know why N/C has 2 patterns. I can’t find the number I used for my ’33 836 7-p right now (Rich Lange used the same one for his 5-p 1236), but maybe it’ll turn up later.

Bob

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Jim,

Make sure that the springs in the distributor advance plate are correct, so that you actually get spark advance at higher rpm. (Check running engine with a timing light or meter, looking thru the little cover on the flywheel housing.) I have seen engines put together with .050″ thick spring wire instead of about .035″ (can’t remember exactly), and they didn’t move!

Cheers,

Bob

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Richard,

In case you’re wondering what parts on that eBay chassis might fit your 836 (or 1236 if you decide to make it a 12): Definitely the transmission, and power brake unit (if they’re any good). (Exactly the same part #’s except power brake case, which has 2 extra mounting bolt holes for the ’34 – just don’t use them.)

BTW – it would be a good investment for you to buy a ’33 parts book reprint from the PAS library (and maybe a ’34-’35) if you don’t already have one, to determine interchangeability on stuff like this.

The bell housing will not fit an 8, but will probably fit a ’33 12.

The rear axle/differential will fit, but is not correct (it looks very different, much larger, w/4 bearing bolts sticking out of the helmet, with provision for a torque arm that would not be used.) The 836/1236 originally used a worm drive which gave a lot of problems, so in ’34 the P-A factory issued a bulletin that recommended replacing it with a ’34/’35 hypoid 8-cyl. unit (which I have done in my ’33). So that’s the one you want.

The steering and front axle assembly parts all have different part numbers, so probably won’t work – I don’t know. (The box is very different.)

Brakes have most p/n’s matching, so would probably work (except cables will be different length).

Right front spring is same as 1236. Left is different.

Rear springs are different p/n’s. 8’s have less leaves in front.

That’s about it.

Cheers,

Bob

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Hi All,

Just looked in my parts books to confirm my recollection:

All 1933 8’s and small 12’s, and all ’34s and ’35s (as Paul said) used the same part # (703170), which is the black ball with a ridge but no silver band.

The ’33 big 12’s (1242 & 1247) and all 1932’s used a different part # (701080), which is the one with the silver band.

The 1931’s used a different shape (#750914), with a button in the center for the free-wheeling control.

The 1930’s used #123850, which appears (from the ’30 catalog) to have the silver band.

All that being said, if I walked in to a P-A salesroom and said I’ll buy the car if you put on a silver band shift knob, you know what they would do.

Cheers,

Bob

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Hi Richard,

You are referring to Evans waterless coolant, which is nothing more than pure ethylene glycol antifreeze (with no water in it). The anti-corrosion and anti-boiling properties are excellent and beyond reproach, but the cooling leaves something to be desired, in my opinion.

Ethylene glycol has only 70% of the heat-carrying capacity of water. So your engine will run about 20-30% hotter than with water. This can have several effects:

(1) With the higher volatility of today’s gasoline, and the already present propensity toward vapor lock, the car will vapor lock at slighter provocations – ambient temperature over 70*, altitude over a thousand feet, hill climbing, etc.

(2) You will be anxious seeing your temp gauge liquid at the top of its range all the time.

(3) If your engine has valve seat inserts, the higher operating temperature could shorten their life – they may start loosening up prematurely due to wider temperature cycling range.

I try to run my cars at the lowest practical temp – heat is the enemy.

Water is THE best cooling liquid. You can add additives for corrosion protection (Nalcool, Pencool, etc.) and drain the block for storage times.

Running a 50-50 antifreeze/water mixture will cool better than pure Evans (but worse than pure water) and have some corrosion protection, but may foam in your Pierce.

The one area that pure ethylene glycol will cool better is in areas in the block that tend to have low flow rates, and the coolant lingers in a hot spot until it boils at that spot (even though the average block temp is OK). These mini-boiling areas then get even hotter since there is only steam contact, and can damage valves and seats, etc. The Evans coolant will not boil at these spots.

Evans would be ideal if the water pump and radiator were designed for it – with a 30% greater flow rate and radiating surface – so the engine would operate in the temp range it was designed for.

(There is an argument that engines operate more efficiently at higher temps, but I haven’t researched it.)

That being said, I know Restoration Supply (Escondido, CA) sells it for $35 a gallon. (I tried some in my ’38 Buick.) You can order some and try it for yourself. I bought a higher flow radiator core for my ’33 and when I install it I may try Evans again.

Regards,

Bob

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Hi Richard,

Are you working on a stock 1933 P-A 836? I’ve had my 8-cyl 7-passenger sedan for 40 years now.

Anyhow, I have an extra grill (shutter) assembly, in good shape (the center vertical stationary rib is slightly bent, but can easily be straightened, the shutters are straight, covered in silver paint and will probably need to be rechromed).

Let me know if you still need this, and I will come up with a price including boxing and shipping.

Also, you can buy a NEW manufactured windshield frame (no rust-outs to ooze thru plating, etc.) They are available from N/C Industries Antique Auto Parts, 301 South Thomas Ave., P.O. Box 254, Sayre, PA 18840;

570-888-6216. They have many patterns for old car w/s frames, and they are exactly like original, and FIT. (Note to Parts and Services page!)

Regards,

Bob Jacobsen

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Is that the one that reads up to the speed of light?

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Hi Mika,

There will be no action or movement of the brake actuators when the brake pedal is pushed, unless the car (driveshaft) is MOVING. The brake pedal is merely a “switch” that turns the power brakes on, driven by the internal clutch in the power brake unit behind the tranny. The emergency brake lever, however, should pull the cables on and actuate the brakes when the car is both moving and at rest. The full Stewart-Warner power brake brochure is reprinted in PASB 74-1, and a short P-A publication explanation is in ARROW 66-2.

Cheers,

Bob Jacobsen

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Hi David,

I had the pleasure of providing 16mm footage of Ab’s 1932 Pierce run to that film, and am listed in the credits. They did a good job of telling Ab’s story, and publicizing the Mormon Meteor. My only issue with the film is that they did not tell about the 1934 Pierce run (I tried to convince them to, but the usual time limitations were cited).

Cheers,

Bob

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Hi Oivind,

I couldn’t tell from the pictures, but you may want to make sure that the 6 cone nuts that adjust the release levers have sufficient material left (in the right spots) to peen over into the bolt slots and lock the nuts (using a locking punch made from a cold chisel as pictured in the Long clutch bulletin or PASB 73-5).

On my ’33 several nuts had loosened and the clutch would not release properly (and the nuts were in danger of coming off!).

Since I could not find new cone nuts, I took new long brass nuts and drilled a 1/16″ hole thru each face (near the top end), and then installed small cotter pins thru the bolt slots when the nuts were adjusted to the right position.

Best regards,

Bob

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Ed,

Which ones are you calling “correct”” and “”incorrect””?

Bob”

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Hi Tim,

The 1932 to 1938 V-12’s (as well as the 8’s) did not have what we now think of as conventional thermostats that control the flow of water (in the cylinder head water outlets).

Instead, they had a (one) bellows assembly in the upper radiator tank, filled with ether, that would expand when the temp reached about 165, and push a lever that cranked the grille shutters open, allowing air to pass thru the radiator. The original units were titled “Sylphon”, and reproductions are still available.

Any attempt to put conventional thermostats in would be redundant at best, and could hinder the cooling system.

Cheers,

Bob

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And of course you old timers know how to check if an axle is cracked (at a swap meet or somewhere where you are not close to a magnaflux unit):

Hold the axle up by two fingers under the bearing flange, hit the spline end with a hammer, and see how long the axle rings. If a P-A size axle rings for about 30 seconds (hold your ear close, to note when the ringing completely dies out), it has no cracks. About half that time (depending where the crack is) means it has a crack.

Cheers,

Bob

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Bill,

From my Parts Books –

P/n 700398 is used on ALL ’32 – ’35 8’s and 12’s, worm AND hypoid,

and I’m pretty sure (no parts book) on ALL ’36-’38). They are 10-spline.

P/n 123862 is used on all ’30s (and probably ’29s).

P/n 744147 is used on all ’31s.

Cheers,

Bob

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Hi Mika,

I am in Los Altos, CA, about 70 miles north of Monterey, and would be happy to show you our ’33 and ’34 Pierces, and some engine work on another ’34 engine. There are at least a dozen more Pierces in collections within another 40 mile radius that I think we could arrange to see. I am available after May 19 and could set up your visit. Your message says you will be in CA from May 15 to May 23?

Let me know.

Bob Jacobsen

Director, Northern California Region, PAS

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Hi Chris,

The Metropolitan Motor Co. is listed as 1841 Euclid Avenue in the 1907 Owners Manual. (Euclid and East 19th Street in the 1908 Manual.)

The 1910-11 catalog lists The Western Reserve Motor Car Co., at 6604-6618 Euclid Avenue.

The 1914-15 sales catalog lists Weaver-Twelvetree Co., at 1821 East 13th Street, N.E.

The 1916 thru 1919 sales catalogs list Fred P. Brand Motor Co., at Carnegie Avenue and East 46th Street.

After that, the company apparently stopped listing dealers in the catalogs.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Bob Jacobsen

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Tony-

The ’34-’35 parts book indicates no suffix on the part number for the water manifold for the 8, meaning probably a black engine enamel. The 12’s part number has a -J suffix, indicating Japanning, again a black finish. !933 water manifolds were listed as no finish (black) for the 836, Japan for the 1236, and Nickel (-N) for the 1242,47.

Notwithstanding all of this, many owners plate theirs in 1247 fashion.

Happy New Year!

Bob

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And how about this ’30 that “Sunny” Jim Rolph, governor of California in ’30 campaigned in? (Enlightening front end…)

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